Broadcasting on the Drug Truth Network, this is Cultural Baggage.
“It’s not only inhumane, it is really fundamentally Un-American.”
“No more! Drug War!” “No more! Drug War!”
“No more! Drug War!” “No more! Drug War!”
-----------------------
DEAN BECKER: My Name is Dean Becker. I don’t condone or encourage the use of any drugs, legal or illegal. I report the unvarnished truth about the pharmaceutical, banking, prison and judicial nightmare that feeds on Eternal Drug War.
-----------------------
DEAN BECKER: Hello my friends. Welcome to this edition of Cultural Baggage. We’ve got a great show lined up for you here. We’re going to be speaking to the co-authors of “Dealing Death and Drugs: The Big Business of Dope in the U.S. and Mexico.”
I’m told we do have one of the authors with us. Susie Byrd, how are you this evening?
SUSIE BYRD: I’m doing very well, thank you. Glad to be with you.
DEAN BECKER: We’re having a little trouble reaching Beto at the moment. We hope to get him with us on air shortly. Beto was a councilman in El Paso, Texas but that’s your job these days, isn’t it?
SUSIE BYRD: That’s right. I’m currently serving out my term which will end in 2013 and Beto and I served together on city council for 6 years.
DEAN BECKER: The El Paso city council was noteworthy a couple of years back when there was a unanimous appeal, if I remember right, on a resolution to investigate the drug laws – to do something about the situation. Is that correct?
SUSIE BYRD: Absolutely. In 2009, because of a growing violence in Juarez, Mexico which is our sister city…we’re tied together at the hip both culturally and economically. - families on both sides of the border. The increasing violence in Juarez made us have to really understand what was at the root cause of that. We simply asked for a resolution, which included many other items, that United States congress take some time to evaluate the current drug laws and their impact on Mexico and see if there wasn’t a better way for us to address drug policy in a manner that didn’t harm Mexico and cities like Juarez.
DEAN BECKER: Let’s talk about chapter one of your book: Why is Juarez the deadliest city in the world. That bears some investigation. Tell us what you know about that.
SUSIE BYRD: It really came as a result…Juarez and El Paso serve as one of the most valuable and lucrative transportation points from Mexico into the United States for the Mexican cartels. In 2008 and 2009 two cartels that have had a firm grip on the ability to move drugs through Juarez for some time started fighting with the Sinaloa cartel who, at that time, was able to produce much more marijuana and the Juarez cartel would only let marijuana through that they had produced themselves but they couldn’t produce enough. It created, in the economy of the black market for marijuana, a real power struggle over who would essentially own the ability to move drugs through this corridor.
DEAN BECKER: That brings to mind…prior to President Calderon’s inauguration there was a different methodology. Who controlled the Plaza? Is that right? Who gave contributions to various politicians at numerous levels and it was kind of a more peaceful situation, right?
SUSIE BYRD: It was essentially peaceful because there was an agreement, a political and economical agreement, between the ruling class and the Juarez cartels to essentially have full control over moving drugs through that area.
What happened was Amada Carrillo Fuentes would let the small-time growers of marijuana kind of go through independently and other cartels actually moved marijuana through independently and they would just have to pay a fee.
That was not the same for cocaine. For cocaine they had sole control over. The only people who could move that through was the Juarez cartel. And when Fuentes took over after his brother was killed – he then made the same rules for marijuana so the independents and other cartels could no longer move marijuana through.
The problem for the Juarez cartel was that they weren’t used to producing the amount of marijuana that people were used to transporting through this area and that‘s what created the market conditions that created the all-out war in Juarez.
As you know in an illegal black market you don’t have judges and regulators to help work through a market competition like that. The only way to work through it is to kill each other to take control.
DEAN BECKER: My engineer tells me that we do have your co-author of this great book online with us. Mr. Beto O’Rourke how are you?
BETO O’ROURKE: Good evening. How are you?
DEAN BECKER: I’m good. Good to hear your voice. Folks Beto is co-author along with Susie of this great book, “Dealing Death and Drugs”.
As a way of introduction I told them that you used to be a council member in El Paso but you’re running for a different position now. Tell us about that, Beto.
BETO O’ROURKE: I’m running to represent El Paso in the U.S. Congress. We’re about 2 and 1/2 months away from early voting so we’re in the thick of the campaign.
DEAN BECKER: Your opposition? What is it – Reyes?
BETO O’ROURKE: Yes, the incumbent who is finishing out his 8th term, almost 16 years now, is Sylvester Reyes.
DEAN BECKER: I understand that you’re going to have the first debate of the campaign tomorrow, correct?
BETO O’ROURKE: That’s right. 7:30 a.m. here in El Paso. It’ll be interesting. It’s the first serious challenge within the democratic party in the democratic primary system in 16 years. It’s interesting and I think, finally, El Paso is going to have a choice so we’ll see what happens.
DEAN BECKER: I wish you well with that. Now, Beto, we’ve known each other a few years now. I had the opportunity to come to El Paso for a great seminar a couple years back and, pardon me for saying this, but when we drove over into Ciudad Juarez it creeped me out. Just to see all the soldiers and police in the parks and the playgrounds and street corners all carrying machine guns. But that’s just necessary to maintain some kind of order down there now, isn’t it?
BETO O’ROURKE: I don’t know. You could argue that the presence of the local police, the federal police or the federal army has not done much of anything at all and there may be even an inverse coorelation due to the presence of soldiers and the level of violence in Juarez. In some basic sense, at least for a couple of years, Juarez had truly failed as a city in terms of being able to guarantee the public safety and the safety of individuals from kidnappings and petty crimes to murder, extortion, rape…it was unquestionably and statistically the deadliest city in the world bar none.
It’s a miracle that it didn’t completely collapse as a city and that people continued to live and work there. We are seeing some marginal improvements in the level of violence. There was a headline the other day in the Diadio that said, “Record 52 hours without a murder.” That was the longest stretch in 3 or 4 years that there had not been a murder.
So, yes, it’s a completely different city than the one that I knew growing up and a lot of that obviously has to do with the flow of drugs. We argue that marijuana is critical to the value of the Plaza there and that value in the black market creates a perfect situation for criminal thugs and cartels to do what they’ve been doing in Juarez.
DEAN BECKER: I hear the stories of thousands, tens of thousands of pounds of marijuana being busted in Mexico, on the border, in Houston, all up and down these United States, truthfully. But it really doesn’t prevent them from making a profit. They grow more than they need, right?
BETO O’ROURKE: And Susie makes a point in the book that marijuana is so central to the cartel economy because they control the entire supply chain that their complete means of production versus something like cocaine so that if cocaine is interdicted at the border the Mexican cartels will owe the Colombians or the Bolivians for the value of that cocaine plus whatever future profits they would have expected on the American market whereas is they lose a load of marijuana then they’re just out that expected profit and their internal costs which is very easy to recoop in terms of what’s involved in bringing marijuana to market vs. what’s involved in bringing a very refined product like cocaine to market.
That’s why marijuana is so central to the cartel economy.
DEAN BECKER: In the book you also have some great graphs showing production and seizures and so forth. But what interests me is the number of hectares of marijuana irradicated in Mexico has been going down for the last few years and I think in your book, if I remember right, that’s because they’ve moved so many army and soldiers into the cities and they can’t be out there patrolling the mountainsides looking for the marijuana. Susie, your response.
SUSIE BYRD: For many, many years they were eradicating about 35,000 hectares of marijuana which is about 35,000 metric tons and then when Calderon moved the military into the cities and into the direct conflict with the cartels they, all of the sudden, were not eradicating as much. So as a result in that change of strategy actually what you’ve seen in the United States is the cartels have increased their share of the United States market in marijuana because they’ve been able to produce more and transit more to the United States.
More and more money, even though they probably lost a lot more in terms of product and people, but they’ve certainly in the last four years earned more off marijuana than they had before Calderon changed strategy.
DEAN BECKER: It’s amazing the price increases from the farmer growing it to the moving it to one side of the border, moving it on into the United States and the amount of profits just keeps rising each step of the way.
SUSIE BYRD: Right. The cartels buy a pound of marijuana in the golden triangle of Mexico for $25 and they can sell it in Chicago for $525 per pound.
DEAN BECKER: I understand that the situation with these growers is they’re allied to a certain cartel – they can’t negotiate the price, right?
SUSIE BYRD: Absolutely. Either they’re allied or they are directly working for the cartel. In fact the land is owned by the cartels. In those cases the cartels are out much less in terms of owning the land and producing it themselves.
They are usually purchasing it for very small amounts from growers in Mexico and then they’re making 25 times that in Chicago or Atlanta or any large market.
DEAN BECKER: Yeah, 25 times over they can afford to lose 10, 20, 30% of their loads and still come out way ahead.
Want to remind folks that we’re speaking with Susie Byrd. She’s a council member in El Paso and her co-author of this great book, Beto O’Rourke was a council member. He’s now running for U.S. Representative in the state of Texas. Their book, I urge you to get, is “Dealing Death and Drugs.”
Now, Beto, earlier you were talking about how the death toll had diminished there in Ciudad Juarez but the death toll in Mexico has not dried up by any means has it?
BETO O’ROURKE: I do want to make clear that it’s still really bad and very dangerous in Juarez. Things have improved marginally and they’ve improved relative to the worst years of violence which was last year but it’s still very dangerous and there’s still far too many people being killed in Juarez.
But Mexico as a whole…we see it every day in the newspaper where people are killed in cities that were formally assumed to be “safe cities” or havens or immune to drug violence and it’s increasingly clear that no part of Mexico is immune to the violence and so much of the Mexican economy is somehow interconnected with the drug and cartel economy.
It’s why you had Felipe Calderon not too long ago basically saying….and here’s the guy who declared war on the cartels and started this process that has led to almost 50,000 people killed in his country – he basically said it’s time for us to look at market alternatives to the current war on drugs.
It’s gotten bad enough in enough parts of Mexico that it’s not just the former presidents, Vicente Fox, but actually have the current president who have launched the most aggressive war on drugs in recent history starting to say we need an alternative to the status quo. That’s really significant.
DEAN BECKER: I want to get an answer from both of you on this. There are perhaps 100,000,000 U.S. pot smokers. I understand that many of them are now using the American-grown, high-grade stuff and all of that but the fact of the matter is that this has gone on since President Nixon declared the War on Drugs or if you want to go back one hundred years, really…I guess the question I want to pose on both of you as politicians is this…Why aren’t more politicians willing to open up this can of worms and go fishing for truth?. Why can it not be addressed more openly?
BETO O’ROURKE: I think for most politicians and the more we learn about congress it’s clear for most congressional representatives they’re main purpose in life is to be reelected and to stay in power and you don’t ever want to do anything that’s going to compromise your ability to win the next election- one of the proverbial third rails in American politics that you just don’t touch is if your main goal is to be elected or to be reelected.
That is the principle reason. I think the cure to that is things like the Gallup poll that came out recently that showed for the first time in American history that 50%+ U.S. citizens believe that marijuana should be made legal. When politicians see that their constituents are willing to back them up on something that before was too controversial then they’ll take that next step.
Let’s hope that the polling numbers continue to improve because a lot is at stake in this. I’ve made the case on your show before and Susie and I make the case in the book that nobody feels it more acutely than the people living in Juarez and the people who are the victims of this violence that’s caused by the insatiable demand for illegal drugs in the U.S. and drug prohibition in the U.S., mainly marijuana prohibition.
If we change those things we don’t get rid of the cartels, we don’t fix all the problems as far as the U.S. has but we certainly have a better chance at making life better for millions of people. I think that’s a conversation we’re now starting to have in this country which is great.
DEAN BECKER: Susie, your response to why politicians have been so obstinate.
SUSIE BYRD: I agree with Beto. People just don’t think you can be elected and talk about the issues. But what we’ve found from talking to people at neighborhood meetings or raised this issue for the first time is that people are ready to have the conversation. They want to talk about it. Too often the response back from either law enforcement or elected officials who really believe the current path is the way to go is not based on fact. It’s more moralistic. It’s more emotional. I think more and more they just don’t have the facts to back them up that the current path makes sense in the United States and it certainly doesn’t make sense in Mexico.
DEAN BECKER: As a speaker for Law Enforcement Against Prohibition…I’m in to a lot of rotary clubs and so forth and they seem to think I must be wacky to be talking about legalizing drugs but before it’s over, out of all these 60, 70 or 80-year-old people, I can’t find anybody left who really objects once I lay it out there. I would hope that more politicians are educating themselves like you have because I think given, I’m hoping tomorrow with Mr. Reyes, that this subject comes up and you could whip his butt.
The fact of the matter is those who are supporting prohibition are supporting gangs and cartels, they’re supporting terrorist, they’re ensuring children’s access – all of these horrible things that are used as justification for the drug war.
We got just a couple minutes left. Susie, your response to what I just said, please.
SUSIE BYRD: Both Beto and I have kids and I believe the biggest response that you get from people in support of prohibition is “What about our kids?! You’re making it so people think it’s OK for our kids.”
When we were having this conversation in 2009 and have continued to have this conversation. I’ve talked to my kids who are in middle school and high school and they were telling me that it was really easy to get pot, that their friends were smoking pot so that sort of juxtaposition of the easy access for my kids in middle school and high school to marijuana and the incredible violence in Mexico that we were justifying as the way we were going to keep marijuana from our kids – it’s just too jarring and so blatant that it’s not working. I really do think that there’s no other choice but to open up the conversation and do something different.
DEAN BECKER: Indeed. About a minute and one-half here. I want to recommend this book to you, dear listeners. It is “Dealing Death and Drugs.” It was written by our two guests, Beto O’Rourke and Susie Byrd
I want to quickly bring up the thought that this past week here in Houston we had a shootout on the city streets where some cartel members stopped a truck and killed the driver, wounded a deputy and some folks seem to think that’s the first instance of the cartels being actively being involved in the U.S. and to that I say poppycock.
About 30 seconds a piece…Beto, your response.
BETO O’ROURKE: I agree with you. There’s a long, rich, violent history of this kind of thing in the United States and whether it’s related to Mexican cartels or not, we’re well-practiced in the U.S. And, again, I think there are better policies this country can pursue to prevent that kind of violence from taking place on streets in the U.S.
DEAN BECKER: Susie Byrd…
SUSIE BYRD: Yes, particularly in the distribution hubs of Chicago, Atlanta, Houston where the cartels are starting to compete more for the market share in those wholesale markets I think you’re going to start to see a lot more of that. But certainly it’s not the first time and I don’t think it’ll be the last time. We have to figure out a different way to do this.
DEAN BECKER: Yes, the retail market is where the real profits are. Once again we’re speaking with Beto O’Rourke and Susie Byrd, “Dealing Death and Drugs.” Thank you both.
SUSIE BYRD: Thank you.
BETO O’ROURKE: Thank you.
-----------------------
ANNOUNCER: Do you suffer from fear of losing your election? Are you terrified that voters will discover you’ve done nothing to improve their lives? Maybe it’s time you talk to your Spin Doctor about Incarcerex.
In clinical trials Incarcerex has been shown effective at reducing election-related anxieties by making the voters think you’re doing something about the drug problem. It’s simplistic and fast-acting.
If your problems continue or get worse, you can always double or triple your dose of Incarcerex. Whether it’s addiction, therapeutic use or just casual use, there’s an Incarcerex plan for every American.
Best of all taxpayers, no you, will foot the bill.
Common side effects include loss of civil liberties, police corruption, racial injustice, increased terrorism, spread of HIV and AIDS and violent crime. Bloating prisons are also a common side effect. Stop taking Incarcerex if bloating lasts longer than 20 years. If you’re trying to balance the budget, keep families together or promote human rights, Incarcerex may not be right for you. Do not mix Incarcerex with the constitution or common sense.
So start taking Incarcerex and keep pretending you’re doing something about the drug problem.
-----------------------
TERRY NELSON: This is Terry Nelson of Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (LEAP). We have just celebrated Thanksgiving; a traditional day of giving thanks for all that is good in our world. And this year we do have much to be thankful for. Not the least of which is that the war on drugs is being openly discussed on national TV and other forums.
And, while the government is steadfast in their support of drug prohibition you can see chinks that are appearing in their verbal armor. There are subtle nuances that indicate that they know that the support for the prohibitionist policies are not working and that they are going to have to make changes in policy to meet the changing needs of our society.
We can no longer afford a policy that has wasted over one trillion dollars over the past decades and continues to waste approximately 70 billion dollars a year arresting, prosecuting, incarcerating and monitoring drug felons that they all well know are not a threat to their communities.
Texas has closed a prison for the first time in our history due to Texas’s change in how they approach drug use. The Texas “Right on Crime” approach has made some difference on how our citizens are treated. The following is an excerpt from their ‘statement of principles”.
Conservatives are known for being tough on crime, but we must also be tough on criminal justice spending. That means demanding more cost-effective approaches that enhance public safety. A clear example is our reliance on prisons, which serve a critical role by incapacitating dangerous offenders and career criminals but are not the solution for every type of offender. And in some instances, they have the unintended consequence of hardening nonviolent, low-risk offenders—making them a greater risk to the public than when they entered.
Drug use or abuse if a personal choice and the government has no place in the decision process other than to educate the public on the possible harms of abuse of drugs. Prohibition of these drugs does not work, has not worked and will not work as history has taught us.
Let’s give thanks that our government is listening to some degree and that positive changes are beginning to occur. I suggest that we support the changes that increase public safety, protect individual rights, and increase transparency in our legal system. Criminal law should be reserved for conduct that is either blameworthy or threatens public safety, not wielded to grow government and undermine economic freedom.
So our efforts have begun to have a positive effect on our government. Let’s continue to push for positive non violent change and utilize the First Amendment right of the people...to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
Let’s change our drug policy to one of education and treatment instead of arrest and incarceration. Let’s work together to make this a nation that respects all of the people all of the time. This is Terry Nelson of LEAP, www.leap.cc signing off. Stay safe.
-----------------------
ANNOUNCER: Doing the same thing again and again. Expecting different results is the definition of insanity.
DEAN BECKER: Albert Einstein, 1932
-----------------------
DEAN BECKER: I hope you enjoyed this edition of Cultural Baggage. I urge you to get a copy of “Dealing Death and Drugs” by Susie Byrd and Beto O’Rourke. There down there in the heart of it, in El Paso. They’ve seen the horrors of their sister city and they’ve got some great advice for all of us.
I want to remind you, once again, that because of prohibition you don’t know what’s in that bag – cartel weed or what. Please, be careful.
-----------------------
DEAN BECKER: To the Drug Truth Network listeners around the world, this is Dean Becker for Cultural Baggage and the Unvarnished Truth.
This show produced at the Pacifica studios of KPFT, Houston.
Transcript provided by: Jo-D Harrison of www.DrugSense.org
Tap dancing… on the edge… of an abyss.
Transcript
Transcript
Cultural Baggage / November 27, 2011
-----------------------
Broadcasting on the Drug Truth Network, this is Cultural Baggage.
“It’s not only inhumane, it is really fundamentally Un-American.”
“No more! Drug War!” “No more! Drug War!”
“No more! Drug War!” “No more! Drug War!”
-----------------------
DEAN BECKER: My Name is Dean Becker. I don’t condone or encourage the use of any drugs, legal or illegal. I report the unvarnished truth about the pharmaceutical, banking, prison and judicial nightmare that feeds on Eternal Drug War.
-----------------------
DEAN BECKER: Hello my friends. Welcome to this edition of Cultural Baggage. We’ve got a great show lined up for you here. We’re going to be speaking to the co-authors of “Dealing Death and Drugs: The Big Business of Dope in the U.S. and Mexico.”
I’m told we do have one of the authors with us. Susie Byrd, how are you this evening?
SUSIE BYRD: I’m doing very well, thank you. Glad to be with you.
DEAN BECKER: We’re having a little trouble reaching Beto at the moment. We hope to get him with us on air shortly. Beto was a councilman in El Paso, Texas but that’s your job these days, isn’t it?
SUSIE BYRD: That’s right. I’m currently serving out my term which will end in 2013 and Beto and I served together on city council for 6 years.
DEAN BECKER: The El Paso city council was noteworthy a couple of years back when there was a unanimous appeal, if I remember right, on a resolution to investigate the drug laws – to do something about the situation. Is that correct?
SUSIE BYRD: Absolutely. In 2009, because of a growing violence in Juarez, Mexico which is our sister city…we’re tied together at the hip both culturally and economically. - families on both sides of the border. The increasing violence in Juarez made us have to really understand what was at the root cause of that. We simply asked for a resolution, which included many other items, that United States congress take some time to evaluate the current drug laws and their impact on Mexico and see if there wasn’t a better way for us to address drug policy in a manner that didn’t harm Mexico and cities like Juarez.
DEAN BECKER: Let’s talk about chapter one of your book: Why is Juarez the deadliest city in the world. That bears some investigation. Tell us what you know about that.
SUSIE BYRD: It really came as a result…Juarez and El Paso serve as one of the most valuable and lucrative transportation points from Mexico into the United States for the Mexican cartels. In 2008 and 2009 two cartels that have had a firm grip on the ability to move drugs through Juarez for some time started fighting with the Sinaloa cartel who, at that time, was able to produce much more marijuana and the Juarez cartel would only let marijuana through that they had produced themselves but they couldn’t produce enough. It created, in the economy of the black market for marijuana, a real power struggle over who would essentially own the ability to move drugs through this corridor.
DEAN BECKER: That brings to mind…prior to President Calderon’s inauguration there was a different methodology. Who controlled the Plaza? Is that right? Who gave contributions to various politicians at numerous levels and it was kind of a more peaceful situation, right?
SUSIE BYRD: It was essentially peaceful because there was an agreement, a political and economical agreement, between the ruling class and the Juarez cartels to essentially have full control over moving drugs through that area.
What happened was Amada Carrillo Fuentes would let the small-time growers of marijuana kind of go through independently and other cartels actually moved marijuana through independently and they would just have to pay a fee.
That was not the same for cocaine. For cocaine they had sole control over. The only people who could move that through was the Juarez cartel. And when Fuentes took over after his brother was killed – he then made the same rules for marijuana so the independents and other cartels could no longer move marijuana through.
The problem for the Juarez cartel was that they weren’t used to producing the amount of marijuana that people were used to transporting through this area and that‘s what created the market conditions that created the all-out war in Juarez.
As you know in an illegal black market you don’t have judges and regulators to help work through a market competition like that. The only way to work through it is to kill each other to take control.
DEAN BECKER: My engineer tells me that we do have your co-author of this great book online with us. Mr. Beto O’Rourke how are you?
BETO O’ROURKE: Good evening. How are you?
DEAN BECKER: I’m good. Good to hear your voice. Folks Beto is co-author along with Susie of this great book, “Dealing Death and Drugs”.
As a way of introduction I told them that you used to be a council member in El Paso but you’re running for a different position now. Tell us about that, Beto.
BETO O’ROURKE: I’m running to represent El Paso in the U.S. Congress. We’re about 2 and 1/2 months away from early voting so we’re in the thick of the campaign.
DEAN BECKER: Your opposition? What is it – Reyes?
BETO O’ROURKE: Yes, the incumbent who is finishing out his 8th term, almost 16 years now, is Sylvester Reyes.
DEAN BECKER: I understand that you’re going to have the first debate of the campaign tomorrow, correct?
BETO O’ROURKE: That’s right. 7:30 a.m. here in El Paso. It’ll be interesting. It’s the first serious challenge within the democratic party in the democratic primary system in 16 years. It’s interesting and I think, finally, El Paso is going to have a choice so we’ll see what happens.
DEAN BECKER: I wish you well with that. Now, Beto, we’ve known each other a few years now. I had the opportunity to come to El Paso for a great seminar a couple years back and, pardon me for saying this, but when we drove over into Ciudad Juarez it creeped me out. Just to see all the soldiers and police in the parks and the playgrounds and street corners all carrying machine guns. But that’s just necessary to maintain some kind of order down there now, isn’t it?
BETO O’ROURKE: I don’t know. You could argue that the presence of the local police, the federal police or the federal army has not done much of anything at all and there may be even an inverse coorelation due to the presence of soldiers and the level of violence in Juarez. In some basic sense, at least for a couple of years, Juarez had truly failed as a city in terms of being able to guarantee the public safety and the safety of individuals from kidnappings and petty crimes to murder, extortion, rape…it was unquestionably and statistically the deadliest city in the world bar none.
It’s a miracle that it didn’t completely collapse as a city and that people continued to live and work there. We are seeing some marginal improvements in the level of violence. There was a headline the other day in the Diadio that said, “Record 52 hours without a murder.” That was the longest stretch in 3 or 4 years that there had not been a murder.
So, yes, it’s a completely different city than the one that I knew growing up and a lot of that obviously has to do with the flow of drugs. We argue that marijuana is critical to the value of the Plaza there and that value in the black market creates a perfect situation for criminal thugs and cartels to do what they’ve been doing in Juarez.
DEAN BECKER: I hear the stories of thousands, tens of thousands of pounds of marijuana being busted in Mexico, on the border, in Houston, all up and down these United States, truthfully. But it really doesn’t prevent them from making a profit. They grow more than they need, right?
BETO O’ROURKE: And Susie makes a point in the book that marijuana is so central to the cartel economy because they control the entire supply chain that their complete means of production versus something like cocaine so that if cocaine is interdicted at the border the Mexican cartels will owe the Colombians or the Bolivians for the value of that cocaine plus whatever future profits they would have expected on the American market whereas is they lose a load of marijuana then they’re just out that expected profit and their internal costs which is very easy to recoop in terms of what’s involved in bringing marijuana to market vs. what’s involved in bringing a very refined product like cocaine to market.
That’s why marijuana is so central to the cartel economy.
DEAN BECKER: In the book you also have some great graphs showing production and seizures and so forth. But what interests me is the number of hectares of marijuana irradicated in Mexico has been going down for the last few years and I think in your book, if I remember right, that’s because they’ve moved so many army and soldiers into the cities and they can’t be out there patrolling the mountainsides looking for the marijuana. Susie, your response.
SUSIE BYRD: For many, many years they were eradicating about 35,000 hectares of marijuana which is about 35,000 metric tons and then when Calderon moved the military into the cities and into the direct conflict with the cartels they, all of the sudden, were not eradicating as much. So as a result in that change of strategy actually what you’ve seen in the United States is the cartels have increased their share of the United States market in marijuana because they’ve been able to produce more and transit more to the United States.
More and more money, even though they probably lost a lot more in terms of product and people, but they’ve certainly in the last four years earned more off marijuana than they had before Calderon changed strategy.
DEAN BECKER: It’s amazing the price increases from the farmer growing it to the moving it to one side of the border, moving it on into the United States and the amount of profits just keeps rising each step of the way.
SUSIE BYRD: Right. The cartels buy a pound of marijuana in the golden triangle of Mexico for $25 and they can sell it in Chicago for $525 per pound.
DEAN BECKER: I understand that the situation with these growers is they’re allied to a certain cartel – they can’t negotiate the price, right?
SUSIE BYRD: Absolutely. Either they’re allied or they are directly working for the cartel. In fact the land is owned by the cartels. In those cases the cartels are out much less in terms of owning the land and producing it themselves.
They are usually purchasing it for very small amounts from growers in Mexico and then they’re making 25 times that in Chicago or Atlanta or any large market.
DEAN BECKER: Yeah, 25 times over they can afford to lose 10, 20, 30% of their loads and still come out way ahead.
Want to remind folks that we’re speaking with Susie Byrd. She’s a council member in El Paso and her co-author of this great book, Beto O’Rourke was a council member. He’s now running for U.S. Representative in the state of Texas. Their book, I urge you to get, is “Dealing Death and Drugs.”
Now, Beto, earlier you were talking about how the death toll had diminished there in Ciudad Juarez but the death toll in Mexico has not dried up by any means has it?
BETO O’ROURKE: I do want to make clear that it’s still really bad and very dangerous in Juarez. Things have improved marginally and they’ve improved relative to the worst years of violence which was last year but it’s still very dangerous and there’s still far too many people being killed in Juarez.
But Mexico as a whole…we see it every day in the newspaper where people are killed in cities that were formally assumed to be “safe cities” or havens or immune to drug violence and it’s increasingly clear that no part of Mexico is immune to the violence and so much of the Mexican economy is somehow interconnected with the drug and cartel economy.
It’s why you had Felipe Calderon not too long ago basically saying….and here’s the guy who declared war on the cartels and started this process that has led to almost 50,000 people killed in his country – he basically said it’s time for us to look at market alternatives to the current war on drugs.
It’s gotten bad enough in enough parts of Mexico that it’s not just the former presidents, Vicente Fox, but actually have the current president who have launched the most aggressive war on drugs in recent history starting to say we need an alternative to the status quo. That’s really significant.
DEAN BECKER: I want to get an answer from both of you on this. There are perhaps 100,000,000 U.S. pot smokers. I understand that many of them are now using the American-grown, high-grade stuff and all of that but the fact of the matter is that this has gone on since President Nixon declared the War on Drugs or if you want to go back one hundred years, really…I guess the question I want to pose on both of you as politicians is this…Why aren’t more politicians willing to open up this can of worms and go fishing for truth?. Why can it not be addressed more openly?
BETO O’ROURKE: I think for most politicians and the more we learn about congress it’s clear for most congressional representatives they’re main purpose in life is to be reelected and to stay in power and you don’t ever want to do anything that’s going to compromise your ability to win the next election- one of the proverbial third rails in American politics that you just don’t touch is if your main goal is to be elected or to be reelected.
That is the principle reason. I think the cure to that is things like the Gallup poll that came out recently that showed for the first time in American history that 50%+ U.S. citizens believe that marijuana should be made legal. When politicians see that their constituents are willing to back them up on something that before was too controversial then they’ll take that next step.
Let’s hope that the polling numbers continue to improve because a lot is at stake in this. I’ve made the case on your show before and Susie and I make the case in the book that nobody feels it more acutely than the people living in Juarez and the people who are the victims of this violence that’s caused by the insatiable demand for illegal drugs in the U.S. and drug prohibition in the U.S., mainly marijuana prohibition.
If we change those things we don’t get rid of the cartels, we don’t fix all the problems as far as the U.S. has but we certainly have a better chance at making life better for millions of people. I think that’s a conversation we’re now starting to have in this country which is great.
DEAN BECKER: Susie, your response to why politicians have been so obstinate.
SUSIE BYRD: I agree with Beto. People just don’t think you can be elected and talk about the issues. But what we’ve found from talking to people at neighborhood meetings or raised this issue for the first time is that people are ready to have the conversation. They want to talk about it. Too often the response back from either law enforcement or elected officials who really believe the current path is the way to go is not based on fact. It’s more moralistic. It’s more emotional. I think more and more they just don’t have the facts to back them up that the current path makes sense in the United States and it certainly doesn’t make sense in Mexico.
DEAN BECKER: As a speaker for Law Enforcement Against Prohibition…I’m in to a lot of rotary clubs and so forth and they seem to think I must be wacky to be talking about legalizing drugs but before it’s over, out of all these 60, 70 or 80-year-old people, I can’t find anybody left who really objects once I lay it out there. I would hope that more politicians are educating themselves like you have because I think given, I’m hoping tomorrow with Mr. Reyes, that this subject comes up and you could whip his butt.
The fact of the matter is those who are supporting prohibition are supporting gangs and cartels, they’re supporting terrorist, they’re ensuring children’s access – all of these horrible things that are used as justification for the drug war.
We got just a couple minutes left. Susie, your response to what I just said, please.
SUSIE BYRD: Both Beto and I have kids and I believe the biggest response that you get from people in support of prohibition is “What about our kids?! You’re making it so people think it’s OK for our kids.”
When we were having this conversation in 2009 and have continued to have this conversation. I’ve talked to my kids who are in middle school and high school and they were telling me that it was really easy to get pot, that their friends were smoking pot so that sort of juxtaposition of the easy access for my kids in middle school and high school to marijuana and the incredible violence in Mexico that we were justifying as the way we were going to keep marijuana from our kids – it’s just too jarring and so blatant that it’s not working. I really do think that there’s no other choice but to open up the conversation and do something different.
DEAN BECKER: Indeed. About a minute and one-half here. I want to recommend this book to you, dear listeners. It is “Dealing Death and Drugs.” It was written by our two guests, Beto O’Rourke and Susie Byrd
I want to quickly bring up the thought that this past week here in Houston we had a shootout on the city streets where some cartel members stopped a truck and killed the driver, wounded a deputy and some folks seem to think that’s the first instance of the cartels being actively being involved in the U.S. and to that I say poppycock.
About 30 seconds a piece…Beto, your response.
BETO O’ROURKE: I agree with you. There’s a long, rich, violent history of this kind of thing in the United States and whether it’s related to Mexican cartels or not, we’re well-practiced in the U.S. And, again, I think there are better policies this country can pursue to prevent that kind of violence from taking place on streets in the U.S.
DEAN BECKER: Susie Byrd…
SUSIE BYRD: Yes, particularly in the distribution hubs of Chicago, Atlanta, Houston where the cartels are starting to compete more for the market share in those wholesale markets I think you’re going to start to see a lot more of that. But certainly it’s not the first time and I don’t think it’ll be the last time. We have to figure out a different way to do this.
DEAN BECKER: Yes, the retail market is where the real profits are. Once again we’re speaking with Beto O’Rourke and Susie Byrd, “Dealing Death and Drugs.” Thank you both.
SUSIE BYRD: Thank you.
BETO O’ROURKE: Thank you.
-----------------------
ANNOUNCER: Do you suffer from fear of losing your election? Are you terrified that voters will discover you’ve done nothing to improve their lives? Maybe it’s time you talk to your Spin Doctor about Incarcerex.
In clinical trials Incarcerex has been shown effective at reducing election-related anxieties by making the voters think you’re doing something about the drug problem. It’s simplistic and fast-acting.
If your problems continue or get worse, you can always double or triple your dose of Incarcerex. Whether it’s addiction, therapeutic use or just casual use, there’s an Incarcerex plan for every American.
Best of all taxpayers, no you, will foot the bill.
Common side effects include loss of civil liberties, police corruption, racial injustice, increased terrorism, spread of HIV and AIDS and violent crime. Bloating prisons are also a common side effect. Stop taking Incarcerex if bloating lasts longer than 20 years. If you’re trying to balance the budget, keep families together or promote human rights, Incarcerex may not be right for you. Do not mix Incarcerex with the constitution or common sense.
So start taking Incarcerex and keep pretending you’re doing something about the drug problem.
-----------------------
TERRY NELSON: This is Terry Nelson of Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (LEAP). We have just celebrated Thanksgiving; a traditional day of giving thanks for all that is good in our world. And this year we do have much to be thankful for. Not the least of which is that the war on drugs is being openly discussed on national TV and other forums.
And, while the government is steadfast in their support of drug prohibition you can see chinks that are appearing in their verbal armor. There are subtle nuances that indicate that they know that the support for the prohibitionist policies are not working and that they are going to have to make changes in policy to meet the changing needs of our society.
We can no longer afford a policy that has wasted over one trillion dollars over the past decades and continues to waste approximately 70 billion dollars a year arresting, prosecuting, incarcerating and monitoring drug felons that they all well know are not a threat to their communities.
Texas has closed a prison for the first time in our history due to Texas’s change in how they approach drug use. The Texas “Right on Crime” approach has made some difference on how our citizens are treated. The following is an excerpt from their ‘statement of principles”.
Conservatives are known for being tough on crime, but we must also be tough on criminal justice spending. That means demanding more cost-effective approaches that enhance public safety. A clear example is our reliance on prisons, which serve a critical role by incapacitating dangerous offenders and career criminals but are not the solution for every type of offender. And in some instances, they have the unintended consequence of hardening nonviolent, low-risk offenders—making them a greater risk to the public than when they entered.
Drug use or abuse if a personal choice and the government has no place in the decision process other than to educate the public on the possible harms of abuse of drugs. Prohibition of these drugs does not work, has not worked and will not work as history has taught us.
Let’s give thanks that our government is listening to some degree and that positive changes are beginning to occur. I suggest that we support the changes that increase public safety, protect individual rights, and increase transparency in our legal system. Criminal law should be reserved for conduct that is either blameworthy or threatens public safety, not wielded to grow government and undermine economic freedom.
So our efforts have begun to have a positive effect on our government. Let’s continue to push for positive non violent change and utilize the First Amendment right of the people...to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
Let’s change our drug policy to one of education and treatment instead of arrest and incarceration. Let’s work together to make this a nation that respects all of the people all of the time. This is Terry Nelson of LEAP, www.leap.cc signing off. Stay safe.
-----------------------
ANNOUNCER: Doing the same thing again and again. Expecting different results is the definition of insanity.
DEAN BECKER: Albert Einstein, 1932
-----------------------
DEAN BECKER: I hope you enjoyed this edition of Cultural Baggage. I urge you to get a copy of “Dealing Death and Drugs” by Susie Byrd and Beto O’Rourke. There down there in the heart of it, in El Paso. They’ve seen the horrors of their sister city and they’ve got some great advice for all of us.
I want to remind you, once again, that because of prohibition you don’t know what’s in that bag – cartel weed or what. Please, be careful.
-----------------------
DEAN BECKER: To the Drug Truth Network listeners around the world, this is Dean Becker for Cultural Baggage and the Unvarnished Truth.
This show produced at the Pacifica studios of KPFT, Houston.
Transcript provided by: Jo-D Harrison of www.DrugSense.org
Tap dancing… on the edge… of an abyss.