The failure of Drug War is glaringly obvious to judges, cops, wardens, prosecutors and millions more now calling for decriminalization, legalization, the end of prohibition. Let us investigate the Century of Lies.
________________
Dean Becker: Oh, yes. Welcome my friends to the Century of Lies. We have with us today a gentleman who has been involved in the drug war in various fronts for more than thirty years, ten of those working in San Jose as a California narcotics detective. Later, he was assigned to a DEA run task force. He is now a member of Law Enforcement Against Prohibition, my band of brothers. There is much we need to talk about. Let us just go ahead and bring him on. Hello, Mr. Jones.
Russ Jones: Good evening, Dean.
Dean Becker: Thank you, Russ. Thank you for being with us. Our prior discussion with Mr. Richardson dealt with the fact that the drug war news is just getting hotter and hotter. I looked at the papers today; New York times, Washington
Post, Houston Chronicle, a couple of others, The Guardian… It is all over the place. It is an issue that just needs to be addressed, right?
Russ Jones: Well, I think it is being addressed and I think that is why we are hearing more and more about it. So I think we are getting the word out there. I think people are beginning to pay attention that maybe what we have been doing is a failed policy.
Dean Becker: Well, more and more, our band of brothers, Law Enforcement Against Prohibition is being quoted and recognized for what we have been saying lo these many years, right?
Russ Jones: That is correct. I think people are beginning to pay attention.
Dean Becker: You know there was a article that caught my attention in today’s Chronicle: Each arrest helps win the drug war a DEA says, you know. He is talking about that somehow this is working. Thirty-seven million arrests later, that somehow that is doing its job. It is not working, is it?
Russ Jones: No, it’s not working and he used a phrase – I read that article you are referring to - he used a phrase and he said you know that he was on the front line and he sees all the death and destruction due to illegal drugs. And that is the key right there, illegal drugs. The death, disease, the crime in drug use is because drugs are illegal, not because of drugs.
Dean Becker: Yeah, and I guess that is the point. I have tried to phrase it up numerous ways but it is the repercussions, the blowback, the results of the policy are used somehow as justification for more of the same policy, right?
Russ Jones: That’s right. He used the word illegal and if he would have caught himself, he would have realized our point. Our point is it is because we have made them illegal that we have the black market and we have the crime and corruption and the death and disease.
Dean Becker: And there was another one. Another story in today’s Chronicle: The Mexican soldiers arrested another suspected drug gang leader. How many times are they going to re-run that one?
Russ Jones: Well, we have been arresting drug gang leaders since 1970, the very year I entered law enforcement. And every time we arrest one it is just replaced by another one. There was a point early in the war on drugs in the 1970s - we had barely been involved in this war on drugs for three or four years when I noticed we narcotics officers would cut a glance at each other and smirk and smile when the district attorney would announce that a major blow had been made because we arrested so and so.
Because you know we knew nothing was going to change and we knew someone was already going to take that guys place in the organization and you know that was back twenty-five years ago. And we are still arresting people and there is someone going to take his place every time.
Dean Becker: Again, yesterday’s Chronicle: Gunman killed Mexican political candidate and his family, his wife and two sons. This despite the fact there are now forty-five thousand troops in place in Mexico. They are still leaving severed heads on cars roofs and shooting a cop about once a day, right?
Russ Jones: Well, I am overwhelmed by all the news articles. I can’t read them all and I know it is happening but you get to a point where you just kind of read the headline. Yeah, it is going on every day and it is the battle for control over drugs.
The drugs themselves have nothing to do with these killings. It is a battle over the control. So it is the Al Capones fighting amongst themselves is why we have the deaths over there In Mexico.
Dean Becker: You know, Russ it - to me it kind of boils down to this. The evidence is overwhelming. It is glaring. It as obvious as can be. It is just what are we going to do with it and who is going to do what with it when.
Another I think very important column came out I think two days ago in The Guardian newspaper and just the title says it all: The war on drugs is immoral idiocy. People are starting to slap this about the face pretty good. What is it going to take?
Russ Jones: Well, it is going to take some leaders to stand up and lead. Unfortunately we have got leaders who put their finger in the air and see which way the wind is blowing and so things move very slow that way. It is going to take a leader to stand up and say enough is enough and we don’t have that leader yet. We have leaders who will hem and haw around the edges but then when it comes time to actually do something decisive about it they won’t.
Dean Becker: And then again today from The Observer in the UK. Here is the headline of their editorial: Prohibition’s failed, time for a new drug policy. I think many intelligent people; many people who have observed this over the years are getting it.
But you are right. It is going to take that leader, that politician, that public official with the courage to speak this full truth because I am fairly certain that if you or I were given five minutes of unfettered air time on you know a major national broadcast, we could end this thing. I think we could just gut it right there live on the air. Your thoughts?
Russ Jones: We know we have a strong argument because DEA or anyone from the Department of Justice will not debate us in public. It is a policy. And they know because they don’t have the winning argument. So we have to go out there and make our argument, as we do, giving our talks across the nation without the benefit, though, of a debate.
Dean Becker: Right and you know I think about the lack of backbone or will power because I try to work with local politicians here. When I hear people are running for office I contact them and I say, look, I have got a win win win situation for you. You can stand forth and say you want to kill Osama’s cash cow and destroy the barbarous cartels, eliminate the reason for these violent gangs, reduce death, disease, crime and addiction. And they all say, you are right, yeah, I should do it. But somehow they don’t lack the ability to make that first step into that foray if you will. Your thoughts?
Russ Jones: Well, they are battling two – they are battling number one: the facts that just are not being made public and number two: they are battling the moral argument. That ideological argument that says well, drugs are just bad. And that is a strong argument that you and I have to overcome when we get the word out.
Dean Becker: Yeah, well, yeah. That is the truth now. As a spokesman for Law Enforcement Against Prohibition, you and I get the chance to talk to the public and I have become aware that the public is becoming more knowledgeable and ready to join in the discussion in a very positive way of late. Your thoughts?
Russ Jones: Oh I think so. You know I just got back from a two week tour in California where I spoke to Rotary Clubs and other various groups – large groups, one hundred and fifty, one hundred seventy-five strong. And these are business leaders throughout the community and I have yet to have anyone come up and tell me I am full of beans.
Eighty to eighty-five percent of everybody says you know you really make sense. Your facts and the evidence are there and we agree. We have ten percent out there who say, well it makes a lot of sense and I am still not quite convinced – and I understand that. There is very, very few people after hearing the facts and evidence – except for the moral argument – that is all they have.
Dean Becker: Yeah and I severely challenge their morals. I don’t know if you got to hear my “Throwing Down the Gauntlet” on the prior show. I am challenging the world of law enforcement, of criminal justice to come on this show. If it is so damn perfect, if it is working so very well – come on here and explain to us why it is a benefit, how it is of use to our nation.
Or otherwise, work with us. Help us to end this. I think even most of the law enforcement officers on the beat or even the district attorneys or even the judges know it needs to be changed but they… it is just status quo. It is inertia of – it is crazy. I don’t know, Russ your thoughts.
Russ Jones: Well, when you are standing in the forest it is tough. And understand it because I have been there. You know, Elliot Ness surely didn’t want to end the war against alcohol. I am sure he believed that we needed to continue that fight. And so the police officers on the street and narcotics detectives on the streets today they are doing what they think is a great job. They have faith in their actions but until they are able to step back.
And that is why we have so many chiefs of police and some sheriffs and lawyers and judges who belong to the organization because they are at that point where they are able to step back. They have retired or they have moved on in their careers and they are able to step back and take a look at the whole picture. And that is when the light bulb kind of comes on and they go, you know, wow this is a failed policy.
Dean Becker: Right. Well, I tell you what we are going to reach out to the listeners, take your calls. Please give us a call right now at 713 526 5738 or anywhere in North America you can dial in toll free by calling 1 877 9 420 420 and we do have a couple of people already on line. Can we go to Drew on line one? Well, OK, Drew. There you are… are you with us Drew?
Caller: Yes, sir.
Dean Becker: You have a question or concern?
Caller: I do. I have written a number of politicians so they know my stance on the need to end prohibition but I am not exactly sure they know what to write. Ethan Nadelmann says he doubts we are going to do a twenty-first amendment to the drug war. So for my own edification and so that I can point others to some ideas maybe they can kind of pace their compendium, collection, a website, a book or something like that I can point them at so they can get some ideas on legislation to write so we can – so they can write the end prohibition bill?
Dean Becker: I would jump in here first, Russ. I think if you go to the King County Bar Association website, they have written a lot of regulation. A lot of outlines of what a taxed, regulated and controlled quote illegal drug market would look like. And you can go to kcba.org and look for the drug policy section and I think you can find numerous reports that they have put together there. Do you have a further response, Russ?
Russ Jones: No, you have to look at what works elsewhere, because that is what they are going to do. You need to look at what Switzerland is doing. What Holland has been successful with and what Portugal is doing. We need to look at some successful programs and start thinking of policy based around that.
Dean Becker: OK, Drew, thank you so much for your question. OK, we have one caller on line; please don’t be afraid to call in. Our number, 1 877 9 420 420 or you can dial in locally at 713 526 5738. Let us go to Richard, line two. You are on the air.
Caller: Hello, my name is Richard.
Dean Becker: Yes sir, what do you have to say?
Caller: I have a problem with… I am from California. I have been to Vietnam. I live I Pasadena, Texas now. I have no problem… I grew up in Arrinda, California outside of Berkeley, OK? I have no problems with you people broadcasting about let’s let marijuana get legal and prohibition. I have no problem with that one bit. But I do have a problem with how is somebody medically can take care of themselves if they get involved with cocaine, heroin, meth. And you people sound to me like police departments should be looking at.
Dean Becker: Alright, well we appreciate your thoughts, Richard. You want to respond first? I have got some thoughts I would like to share. Russ?
Russ Jones: Oh yeah. The problem is – part of the education is at least from my argument is when we talk about legalization, I don’t mean that someone could just go out and buy heroin willy nilly. That is not what I am saying. What I am saying, though, is the district attorneys and the cops and the Department of Justice should stay out of my doctor’s office.
Therefore, if I am a heroin addict today, I should be able to go to my doctor - without risk of arrest as I would today. I should be able to go to my doctor and he should be able to send me to a clinic where I can receive a pharmaceutical dose, known quality, known quantity, administered by a health clinician right there. And then treating it as a health issue not a criminal issue. And that is what they do in Switzerland.
Now, in Switzerland, because a heroin addict can go to a clinic, no one is dealing heroin on the streets because they cannot compete with the clinics. We need to remember that people are driven to the hard drugs like heroin or methamphetamine because of the war on drugs.
During the war on alcohol, people stopped drinking beer and wine and were forced to go to very, very hard adulterated liquor. When the war on alcohol was over, people went back to beer and wine or when they did drink liquor, as today, it’s in a mixed drink.
When we legalize drugs, most people are going to stay to the soft drugs. There may be some amphetamine use, there will be marijuana use. But you are going to have less and less people using the hard, hard drugs. And if they do have a problem with the hard, hard drugs, they won’t be buying it on the street. They are going to be getting it at a clinic administered by a health clinician. And you are going to be taking the drug dealer off the streets.
Drug gangs today aren’t distilling alcohol and trying to sell it in our school parking lots. Drug gangs aren’t growing tobacco in our state forests, that is because it is a legal product that is regulated. So all we are talking about is regulating it. Some drugs would be regulated stricter than others. But at least they will be regulated. We will control it, not the drug gangs.
Dean Becker: And Richard, I would also like to say this. That I went to Bolivia a couple of years back and every person I met used coca, just the leaves. Put a little chaw between cheek and gum. There was no wide spread use of cocaine. This despite the fact that there are cartels down there that make it in Santa Cruz and ship it northward to our shores.
But it was not a problem there because if anybody wanted that little buzz they just put a chaw between their cheek and gum. A much, well, a non-dangerous substitute for cocaine. Alright, let us go to – who has been holding the longest here? Leslie, line one. You are on the air.
Caller: Yes, hello and thank you for taking my call.
Dean Becker: Thank you.
Caller: I just have a question. I just wonder if and when marijuana, for example, is legal, would it still have an effect on like for instance, when you want go to look for a job and they want to test for all these… if you have marijuana, whatever in your system. Will that stop or will that just be used as a means to further discriminate against people trying to seek jobs? And I will hang up for my answer.
Dean Becker: Alright, Leslie, thank you for your question. Russ?
Russ Jones: Well, certainly the private sector would be able to regulate. And I have no problem with, for example the airline industry has to regulate what their pilots – how much they drink and certainly if they are using marijuana. Even if marijuana is legal, I can see certain businesses having that as a hiring requirement, that you don’t have it in your system.
But, that is a different issue. There is a big difference between the government throwing me in jail because I want to come home at the end of the evening and enjoy a marijuana cigarette in my backyard. There is a big difference in that than the fire department or the airline industry or if I work in a very high tech job with machinery, not allowing that. And that is a different issue. One is a civil issue and one is a legal issue and I would suspect and I think I would encourage in some instances there still be a civil limitation on who smokes marijuana and who doesn’t.
Dean Becker: OK. I want to alert you that we do have some lines now open. Give us a call 1 877 9 420 420 or locally 713 526 5738. Let us go to Brian on line two. You are on the air. Hello, Brian?
Caller: Hi, am I on the air?
Dean Becker: Yes, you are on the air, what’s your thought?
Caller: My name is actually Ryan, but I just wanted to add a little input on the discussion. I think that you all are doing a great job. I was just going to say that there is probably what I think one of the main reasons why marijuana is still illegal to this day is because if it was legal then you could grow it in your backyard, in your house, wherever. It would be growing every where. And then it is not money anymore, it is not a cash crop.
I feel like the government is already making plenty of money off the distribution of marijuana and that most of it is grown here in the United States – in Colorado, California, places like that. And those are tax paying citizens that are growing it. And so I believe that if it was made legal then they wouldn’t be able to make that profit and then they wouldn’t be able to make that money off of it. So…
Dean Becker: OK. Brian, I want to first say that the people out in Oakland and I think San Francisco are trying to pay taxes on this. They are trying to legitimize and regulate the distribution. They are trying to send it labs for purity and the potency can be verified before it is sold to the medical marijuana patient. It is a very governmental like stance taken. Your thoughts, Mr. Russ Jones.
Russ Jones: Well, my thoughts are it is kind of like tomatoes. I could grow my own tomatoes but I know I can get a good quality tomato down at my market, farmer’s market here in New Braunfels or I can go down to the supermarket and buy tomatoes. So, can I grow my own? Sure I can. But I also know I can get a good quality if I buy it commercially through a licensed dealer.
That is not to say, though, that if we legalize marijuana we won’t regulate it the way we do tobacco. Tobacco is legal but you can’t grow your own tobacco. I don’t think people would anyway, it is just too much of a hassle. But technically you cannot grow your own tobacco. It can only be grown by licensed providers. So…
Dean Becker: Russ, I tell you what. We have got two callers left here I want to see if we can get to both of them, address their concerns. Mitch, please, make it quick, you are o the air.
Caller: I’ll try to. Yeah I am actually in favor of legalizing drugs but I don’t really understand how a cocaine or a meth addict is going to a clinic and have a dose administered. I mean, the way those drugs work, I am familiar with people who have had problems with them. You chase the high.
So, if you all could comment on that. I mean, it is not something where a guy can go get a dose and he is going to leave and be fine for five hours or six hours. He is going to want to come back again and again and when he can’t get it at the clinic, where is he going to go? He is going to go to the street, I would think.
Dean Becker: Russ?
Russ Jones: Well, methamphetamine is a by product of the war on drugs. Before the war on drugs, every body used amphetamines. And I think amphetamines is a more milder form and amphetamines would be administered by a doctor. You would go to a pharmacy you would buy then and you would go home.
The same with cocaine. Cocaine is a short lasting drug. It lasts fifteen minutes at the most in your body. Cocaine you would get through a prescription, you would take it home, you and your significant other would enjoy it and in fifteen minutes it would be over and absent harm to anyone else. You are not hurting anyone. They would be no problem.
Dean Becker: OK. And Chuck, you are going to be our last caller. You are on the air. I thank you others for calling in. Chuck, you have question for Mr. Russ Jones of Law Enforcement Against Prohibition?
Caller: Yeah, I mean, my question is that I think that this debate on health care has brought up a good point about public debate on issues like this where perhaps the majority may be for it but a small but vocal, extremely vocal, minority comes out and derails you know the legislative efforts with lots of you know crazy speculation in the media. How do you overcome that? How do you counter a small but extremely vocal minority who is hell bent on derailing any changes to the current you know status quo?
Dean Becker: Mike, thank you, excellent question. We have got about one minute left Russ, go ahead, sir.
Russ Jones: Expel facts and evidence. And get away from the moral and ideological argument and stick with the facts and evidence.
Dean Becker: OK. Russ I am going to be attending a conference. I think it starts on September 20th out in El Paso. Our associate Terry Nelson is going to be back from Iraq and attending that. It portends to be a very powerful conference. But they are talking about going in to Mexico for dinner on the first night and I am just not going to go. Your thoughts?
Russ Jones: I am not sure I would either. It is just not worth it to me, no.
Dean Becker: No. Especially if they knew what I was up to, I don’t think I would make it back. We have been speaking with Mr. Russ Jones, a man with more than thirty years experience as a law enforcement official and one of my band of brothers in Law Enforcement Against Prohibition and our website. Please, please check it out. Participate. Become a member in support of our efforts at leap.cc. Russ, as always it is a pleasure. I thank you so much and we will have to do this again soon.
Russ Jones: Great, thanks.
Dean Becker: Alright, thank you.
Russ Jones: Bye.
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Ladies and Gentlemen, this is the Abolitionist’s Moment.
Do you think the drug war should last forever? Your silence in this regard indicates to the politicians your eternal allegiance to the criminal cartels and the criminal justice system. As a former policeman and as a speaker for Law Enforcement Against Prohibition I challenge you to reconsider your allegiance. I understand your revulsion toward drug and alcohol abusers. You must, however, realize that the current circumstance - one hundred years of drug prohibition is an abject, absolute, undeniable failure. Yet you seek to prevent that which is already at hand and growing by continuing down the same failed path.
The black market in drugs is the worlds largest multi level marketing organization. It is already in every neighborhood and nearly every home. What exactly do you think prohibition will eventually accomplish? As is, the prohibition of drugs enriches the Taliban with at least one hundred million dollars each year for daring to grow flowers. It sends twenty to thirty billion dollars each year to the barbarous cartels in Mexico and provides hundreds of billions in profits to nearly every criminal organization on the planet - this according to the United Nations.
I do not want people doing meth, crack, heroin or any debilitating drugs but you must realize that the current system does not prevent anybody from acquiring these drugs. In a regulated market where we actually controlled the distribution of these so-called controlled substances for adults, the price would be one percent of the black market price. And the purity would be known to the user. Therefore crime committed to purchase these drugs would be virtually unknown and overdose deaths would be limited to those committing suicide. In the US our prison population would be fifty percent or less and we would then have plenty of room to hold anybody who would dare sell drugs to our children for as long as you like.
After one hundred years of drug war, do you seriously consider that we should continue this failed policy of drug prohibition forever? With every bust of a street corner vendor, we create another job opportunity and for every king pin brought to justice, we open the door for another corn farmer to begin waging a new and bloody game of Who wants to be a Billionaire. Please reconsider your allegiance. Do it for the children. Dean Becker. drugtruth.net
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[PSA]
A hundred years… a hundred years… a hundred years… a hundred years…
You can hear the drug war blow a hundred years…
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[PSA]
(sheep bleating in the background)
Sheep: Marijuana kills thousands of our kids every day. Drugs are just bad, mmm-ok?
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Dean Becker: Alright, my friends. You have been listening to the Century of Lies show on the Drug Truth Network. Our guest was Mr. Russ Jones. Thirty plus years of law enforcement experience and now a speaker for the group Law Enforcement Against Prohibition.
And what do I do this for? I certainly don’t do it so I can get high. I don’t do it so that you know your kids can get high. I do it so less people will get high. So that we can quit funding the Taliban and we can eliminate the cartels and the gangs and the reasons for the horrible blow back – the deaths and the disease and the crime and the addiction that results from the policy of drug prohibition.
Once again I remind you that there is no truth, justice, logic, scientific fact, medical data - no reason for this drug war to exist. We have indeed been duped. It is my belief the drug lords run both sides of this equation. Please visit our website: endprohibition.org. Prohibido esta evilesco.
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For the Drug Truth Network, this is Dean Becker, asking you to examine our policy of drug prohibition: The Century of Lies.
This show produced at the Pacifica Studios of KPFT, Houston.
Transcript
Century of Lies, September 30, 2009
The failure of Drug War is glaringly obvious to judges, cops, wardens, prosecutors and millions more now calling for decriminalization, legalization, the end of prohibition. Let us investigate the Century of Lies.
________________
Dean Becker: Oh, yes. Welcome my friends to the Century of Lies. We have with us today a gentleman who has been involved in the drug war in various fronts for more than thirty years, ten of those working in San Jose as a California narcotics detective. Later, he was assigned to a DEA run task force. He is now a member of Law Enforcement Against Prohibition, my band of brothers. There is much we need to talk about. Let us just go ahead and bring him on. Hello, Mr. Jones.
Russ Jones: Good evening, Dean.
Dean Becker: Thank you, Russ. Thank you for being with us. Our prior discussion with Mr. Richardson dealt with the fact that the drug war news is just getting hotter and hotter. I looked at the papers today; New York times, Washington
Post, Houston Chronicle, a couple of others, The Guardian… It is all over the place. It is an issue that just needs to be addressed, right?
Russ Jones: Well, I think it is being addressed and I think that is why we are hearing more and more about it. So I think we are getting the word out there. I think people are beginning to pay attention that maybe what we have been doing is a failed policy.
Dean Becker: Well, more and more, our band of brothers, Law Enforcement Against Prohibition is being quoted and recognized for what we have been saying lo these many years, right?
Russ Jones: That is correct. I think people are beginning to pay attention.
Dean Becker: You know there was a article that caught my attention in today’s Chronicle: Each arrest helps win the drug war a DEA says, you know. He is talking about that somehow this is working. Thirty-seven million arrests later, that somehow that is doing its job. It is not working, is it?
Russ Jones: No, it’s not working and he used a phrase – I read that article you are referring to - he used a phrase and he said you know that he was on the front line and he sees all the death and destruction due to illegal drugs. And that is the key right there, illegal drugs. The death, disease, the crime in drug use is because drugs are illegal, not because of drugs.
Dean Becker: Yeah, and I guess that is the point. I have tried to phrase it up numerous ways but it is the repercussions, the blowback, the results of the policy are used somehow as justification for more of the same policy, right?
Russ Jones: That’s right. He used the word illegal and if he would have caught himself, he would have realized our point. Our point is it is because we have made them illegal that we have the black market and we have the crime and corruption and the death and disease.
Dean Becker: And there was another one. Another story in today’s Chronicle: The Mexican soldiers arrested another suspected drug gang leader. How many times are they going to re-run that one?
Russ Jones: Well, we have been arresting drug gang leaders since 1970, the very year I entered law enforcement. And every time we arrest one it is just replaced by another one. There was a point early in the war on drugs in the 1970s - we had barely been involved in this war on drugs for three or four years when I noticed we narcotics officers would cut a glance at each other and smirk and smile when the district attorney would announce that a major blow had been made because we arrested so and so.
Because you know we knew nothing was going to change and we knew someone was already going to take that guys place in the organization and you know that was back twenty-five years ago. And we are still arresting people and there is someone going to take his place every time.
Dean Becker: Again, yesterday’s Chronicle: Gunman killed Mexican political candidate and his family, his wife and two sons. This despite the fact there are now forty-five thousand troops in place in Mexico. They are still leaving severed heads on cars roofs and shooting a cop about once a day, right?
Russ Jones: Well, I am overwhelmed by all the news articles. I can’t read them all and I know it is happening but you get to a point where you just kind of read the headline. Yeah, it is going on every day and it is the battle for control over drugs.
The drugs themselves have nothing to do with these killings. It is a battle over the control. So it is the Al Capones fighting amongst themselves is why we have the deaths over there In Mexico.
Dean Becker: You know, Russ it - to me it kind of boils down to this. The evidence is overwhelming. It is glaring. It as obvious as can be. It is just what are we going to do with it and who is going to do what with it when.
Another I think very important column came out I think two days ago in The Guardian newspaper and just the title says it all: The war on drugs is immoral idiocy. People are starting to slap this about the face pretty good. What is it going to take?
Russ Jones: Well, it is going to take some leaders to stand up and lead. Unfortunately we have got leaders who put their finger in the air and see which way the wind is blowing and so things move very slow that way. It is going to take a leader to stand up and say enough is enough and we don’t have that leader yet. We have leaders who will hem and haw around the edges but then when it comes time to actually do something decisive about it they won’t.
Dean Becker: And then again today from The Observer in the UK. Here is the headline of their editorial: Prohibition’s failed, time for a new drug policy. I think many intelligent people; many people who have observed this over the years are getting it.
But you are right. It is going to take that leader, that politician, that public official with the courage to speak this full truth because I am fairly certain that if you or I were given five minutes of unfettered air time on you know a major national broadcast, we could end this thing. I think we could just gut it right there live on the air. Your thoughts?
Russ Jones: We know we have a strong argument because DEA or anyone from the Department of Justice will not debate us in public. It is a policy. And they know because they don’t have the winning argument. So we have to go out there and make our argument, as we do, giving our talks across the nation without the benefit, though, of a debate.
Dean Becker: Right and you know I think about the lack of backbone or will power because I try to work with local politicians here. When I hear people are running for office I contact them and I say, look, I have got a win win win situation for you. You can stand forth and say you want to kill Osama’s cash cow and destroy the barbarous cartels, eliminate the reason for these violent gangs, reduce death, disease, crime and addiction. And they all say, you are right, yeah, I should do it. But somehow they don’t lack the ability to make that first step into that foray if you will. Your thoughts?
Russ Jones: Well, they are battling two – they are battling number one: the facts that just are not being made public and number two: they are battling the moral argument. That ideological argument that says well, drugs are just bad. And that is a strong argument that you and I have to overcome when we get the word out.
Dean Becker: Yeah, well, yeah. That is the truth now. As a spokesman for Law Enforcement Against Prohibition, you and I get the chance to talk to the public and I have become aware that the public is becoming more knowledgeable and ready to join in the discussion in a very positive way of late. Your thoughts?
Russ Jones: Oh I think so. You know I just got back from a two week tour in California where I spoke to Rotary Clubs and other various groups – large groups, one hundred and fifty, one hundred seventy-five strong. And these are business leaders throughout the community and I have yet to have anyone come up and tell me I am full of beans.
Eighty to eighty-five percent of everybody says you know you really make sense. Your facts and the evidence are there and we agree. We have ten percent out there who say, well it makes a lot of sense and I am still not quite convinced – and I understand that. There is very, very few people after hearing the facts and evidence – except for the moral argument – that is all they have.
Dean Becker: Yeah and I severely challenge their morals. I don’t know if you got to hear my “Throwing Down the Gauntlet” on the prior show. I am challenging the world of law enforcement, of criminal justice to come on this show. If it is so damn perfect, if it is working so very well – come on here and explain to us why it is a benefit, how it is of use to our nation.
Or otherwise, work with us. Help us to end this. I think even most of the law enforcement officers on the beat or even the district attorneys or even the judges know it needs to be changed but they… it is just status quo. It is inertia of – it is crazy. I don’t know, Russ your thoughts.
Russ Jones: Well, when you are standing in the forest it is tough. And understand it because I have been there. You know, Elliot Ness surely didn’t want to end the war against alcohol. I am sure he believed that we needed to continue that fight. And so the police officers on the street and narcotics detectives on the streets today they are doing what they think is a great job. They have faith in their actions but until they are able to step back.
And that is why we have so many chiefs of police and some sheriffs and lawyers and judges who belong to the organization because they are at that point where they are able to step back. They have retired or they have moved on in their careers and they are able to step back and take a look at the whole picture. And that is when the light bulb kind of comes on and they go, you know, wow this is a failed policy.
Dean Becker: Right. Well, I tell you what we are going to reach out to the listeners, take your calls. Please give us a call right now at 713 526 5738 or anywhere in North America you can dial in toll free by calling 1 877 9 420 420 and we do have a couple of people already on line. Can we go to Drew on line one? Well, OK, Drew. There you are… are you with us Drew?
Caller: Yes, sir.
Dean Becker: You have a question or concern?
Caller: I do. I have written a number of politicians so they know my stance on the need to end prohibition but I am not exactly sure they know what to write. Ethan Nadelmann says he doubts we are going to do a twenty-first amendment to the drug war. So for my own edification and so that I can point others to some ideas maybe they can kind of pace their compendium, collection, a website, a book or something like that I can point them at so they can get some ideas on legislation to write so we can – so they can write the end prohibition bill?
Dean Becker: I would jump in here first, Russ. I think if you go to the King County Bar Association website, they have written a lot of regulation. A lot of outlines of what a taxed, regulated and controlled quote illegal drug market would look like. And you can go to kcba.org and look for the drug policy section and I think you can find numerous reports that they have put together there. Do you have a further response, Russ?
Russ Jones: No, you have to look at what works elsewhere, because that is what they are going to do. You need to look at what Switzerland is doing. What Holland has been successful with and what Portugal is doing. We need to look at some successful programs and start thinking of policy based around that.
Dean Becker: OK, Drew, thank you so much for your question. OK, we have one caller on line; please don’t be afraid to call in. Our number, 1 877 9 420 420 or you can dial in locally at 713 526 5738. Let us go to Richard, line two. You are on the air.
Caller: Hello, my name is Richard.
Dean Becker: Yes sir, what do you have to say?
Caller: I have a problem with… I am from California. I have been to Vietnam. I live I Pasadena, Texas now. I have no problem… I grew up in Arrinda, California outside of Berkeley, OK? I have no problems with you people broadcasting about let’s let marijuana get legal and prohibition. I have no problem with that one bit. But I do have a problem with how is somebody medically can take care of themselves if they get involved with cocaine, heroin, meth. And you people sound to me like police departments should be looking at.
Dean Becker: Alright, well we appreciate your thoughts, Richard. You want to respond first? I have got some thoughts I would like to share. Russ?
Russ Jones: Oh yeah. The problem is – part of the education is at least from my argument is when we talk about legalization, I don’t mean that someone could just go out and buy heroin willy nilly. That is not what I am saying. What I am saying, though, is the district attorneys and the cops and the Department of Justice should stay out of my doctor’s office.
Therefore, if I am a heroin addict today, I should be able to go to my doctor - without risk of arrest as I would today. I should be able to go to my doctor and he should be able to send me to a clinic where I can receive a pharmaceutical dose, known quality, known quantity, administered by a health clinician right there. And then treating it as a health issue not a criminal issue. And that is what they do in Switzerland.
Now, in Switzerland, because a heroin addict can go to a clinic, no one is dealing heroin on the streets because they cannot compete with the clinics. We need to remember that people are driven to the hard drugs like heroin or methamphetamine because of the war on drugs.
During the war on alcohol, people stopped drinking beer and wine and were forced to go to very, very hard adulterated liquor. When the war on alcohol was over, people went back to beer and wine or when they did drink liquor, as today, it’s in a mixed drink.
When we legalize drugs, most people are going to stay to the soft drugs. There may be some amphetamine use, there will be marijuana use. But you are going to have less and less people using the hard, hard drugs. And if they do have a problem with the hard, hard drugs, they won’t be buying it on the street. They are going to be getting it at a clinic administered by a health clinician. And you are going to be taking the drug dealer off the streets.
Drug gangs today aren’t distilling alcohol and trying to sell it in our school parking lots. Drug gangs aren’t growing tobacco in our state forests, that is because it is a legal product that is regulated. So all we are talking about is regulating it. Some drugs would be regulated stricter than others. But at least they will be regulated. We will control it, not the drug gangs.
Dean Becker: And Richard, I would also like to say this. That I went to Bolivia a couple of years back and every person I met used coca, just the leaves. Put a little chaw between cheek and gum. There was no wide spread use of cocaine. This despite the fact that there are cartels down there that make it in Santa Cruz and ship it northward to our shores.
But it was not a problem there because if anybody wanted that little buzz they just put a chaw between their cheek and gum. A much, well, a non-dangerous substitute for cocaine. Alright, let us go to – who has been holding the longest here? Leslie, line one. You are on the air.
Caller: Yes, hello and thank you for taking my call.
Dean Becker: Thank you.
Caller: I just have a question. I just wonder if and when marijuana, for example, is legal, would it still have an effect on like for instance, when you want go to look for a job and they want to test for all these… if you have marijuana, whatever in your system. Will that stop or will that just be used as a means to further discriminate against people trying to seek jobs? And I will hang up for my answer.
Dean Becker: Alright, Leslie, thank you for your question. Russ?
Russ Jones: Well, certainly the private sector would be able to regulate. And I have no problem with, for example the airline industry has to regulate what their pilots – how much they drink and certainly if they are using marijuana. Even if marijuana is legal, I can see certain businesses having that as a hiring requirement, that you don’t have it in your system.
But, that is a different issue. There is a big difference between the government throwing me in jail because I want to come home at the end of the evening and enjoy a marijuana cigarette in my backyard. There is a big difference in that than the fire department or the airline industry or if I work in a very high tech job with machinery, not allowing that. And that is a different issue. One is a civil issue and one is a legal issue and I would suspect and I think I would encourage in some instances there still be a civil limitation on who smokes marijuana and who doesn’t.
Dean Becker: OK. I want to alert you that we do have some lines now open. Give us a call 1 877 9 420 420 or locally 713 526 5738. Let us go to Brian on line two. You are on the air. Hello, Brian?
Caller: Hi, am I on the air?
Dean Becker: Yes, you are on the air, what’s your thought?
Caller: My name is actually Ryan, but I just wanted to add a little input on the discussion. I think that you all are doing a great job. I was just going to say that there is probably what I think one of the main reasons why marijuana is still illegal to this day is because if it was legal then you could grow it in your backyard, in your house, wherever. It would be growing every where. And then it is not money anymore, it is not a cash crop.
I feel like the government is already making plenty of money off the distribution of marijuana and that most of it is grown here in the United States – in Colorado, California, places like that. And those are tax paying citizens that are growing it. And so I believe that if it was made legal then they wouldn’t be able to make that profit and then they wouldn’t be able to make that money off of it. So…
Dean Becker: OK. Brian, I want to first say that the people out in Oakland and I think San Francisco are trying to pay taxes on this. They are trying to legitimize and regulate the distribution. They are trying to send it labs for purity and the potency can be verified before it is sold to the medical marijuana patient. It is a very governmental like stance taken. Your thoughts, Mr. Russ Jones.
Russ Jones: Well, my thoughts are it is kind of like tomatoes. I could grow my own tomatoes but I know I can get a good quality tomato down at my market, farmer’s market here in New Braunfels or I can go down to the supermarket and buy tomatoes. So, can I grow my own? Sure I can. But I also know I can get a good quality if I buy it commercially through a licensed dealer.
That is not to say, though, that if we legalize marijuana we won’t regulate it the way we do tobacco. Tobacco is legal but you can’t grow your own tobacco. I don’t think people would anyway, it is just too much of a hassle. But technically you cannot grow your own tobacco. It can only be grown by licensed providers. So…
Dean Becker: Russ, I tell you what. We have got two callers left here I want to see if we can get to both of them, address their concerns. Mitch, please, make it quick, you are o the air.
Caller: I’ll try to. Yeah I am actually in favor of legalizing drugs but I don’t really understand how a cocaine or a meth addict is going to a clinic and have a dose administered. I mean, the way those drugs work, I am familiar with people who have had problems with them. You chase the high.
So, if you all could comment on that. I mean, it is not something where a guy can go get a dose and he is going to leave and be fine for five hours or six hours. He is going to want to come back again and again and when he can’t get it at the clinic, where is he going to go? He is going to go to the street, I would think.
Dean Becker: Russ?
Russ Jones: Well, methamphetamine is a by product of the war on drugs. Before the war on drugs, every body used amphetamines. And I think amphetamines is a more milder form and amphetamines would be administered by a doctor. You would go to a pharmacy you would buy then and you would go home.
The same with cocaine. Cocaine is a short lasting drug. It lasts fifteen minutes at the most in your body. Cocaine you would get through a prescription, you would take it home, you and your significant other would enjoy it and in fifteen minutes it would be over and absent harm to anyone else. You are not hurting anyone. They would be no problem.
Dean Becker: OK. And Chuck, you are going to be our last caller. You are on the air. I thank you others for calling in. Chuck, you have question for Mr. Russ Jones of Law Enforcement Against Prohibition?
Caller: Yeah, I mean, my question is that I think that this debate on health care has brought up a good point about public debate on issues like this where perhaps the majority may be for it but a small but vocal, extremely vocal, minority comes out and derails you know the legislative efforts with lots of you know crazy speculation in the media. How do you overcome that? How do you counter a small but extremely vocal minority who is hell bent on derailing any changes to the current you know status quo?
Dean Becker: Mike, thank you, excellent question. We have got about one minute left Russ, go ahead, sir.
Russ Jones: Expel facts and evidence. And get away from the moral and ideological argument and stick with the facts and evidence.
Dean Becker: OK. Russ I am going to be attending a conference. I think it starts on September 20th out in El Paso. Our associate Terry Nelson is going to be back from Iraq and attending that. It portends to be a very powerful conference. But they are talking about going in to Mexico for dinner on the first night and I am just not going to go. Your thoughts?
Russ Jones: I am not sure I would either. It is just not worth it to me, no.
Dean Becker: No. Especially if they knew what I was up to, I don’t think I would make it back. We have been speaking with Mr. Russ Jones, a man with more than thirty years experience as a law enforcement official and one of my band of brothers in Law Enforcement Against Prohibition and our website. Please, please check it out. Participate. Become a member in support of our efforts at leap.cc. Russ, as always it is a pleasure. I thank you so much and we will have to do this again soon.
Russ Jones: Great, thanks.
Dean Becker: Alright, thank you.
Russ Jones: Bye.
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Ladies and Gentlemen, this is the Abolitionist’s Moment.
Do you think the drug war should last forever? Your silence in this regard indicates to the politicians your eternal allegiance to the criminal cartels and the criminal justice system. As a former policeman and as a speaker for Law Enforcement Against Prohibition I challenge you to reconsider your allegiance. I understand your revulsion toward drug and alcohol abusers. You must, however, realize that the current circumstance - one hundred years of drug prohibition is an abject, absolute, undeniable failure. Yet you seek to prevent that which is already at hand and growing by continuing down the same failed path.
The black market in drugs is the worlds largest multi level marketing organization. It is already in every neighborhood and nearly every home. What exactly do you think prohibition will eventually accomplish? As is, the prohibition of drugs enriches the Taliban with at least one hundred million dollars each year for daring to grow flowers. It sends twenty to thirty billion dollars each year to the barbarous cartels in Mexico and provides hundreds of billions in profits to nearly every criminal organization on the planet - this according to the United Nations.
I do not want people doing meth, crack, heroin or any debilitating drugs but you must realize that the current system does not prevent anybody from acquiring these drugs. In a regulated market where we actually controlled the distribution of these so-called controlled substances for adults, the price would be one percent of the black market price. And the purity would be known to the user. Therefore crime committed to purchase these drugs would be virtually unknown and overdose deaths would be limited to those committing suicide. In the US our prison population would be fifty percent or less and we would then have plenty of room to hold anybody who would dare sell drugs to our children for as long as you like.
After one hundred years of drug war, do you seriously consider that we should continue this failed policy of drug prohibition forever? With every bust of a street corner vendor, we create another job opportunity and for every king pin brought to justice, we open the door for another corn farmer to begin waging a new and bloody game of Who wants to be a Billionaire. Please reconsider your allegiance. Do it for the children. Dean Becker. drugtruth.net
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[PSA]
A hundred years… a hundred years… a hundred years… a hundred years…
You can hear the drug war blow a hundred years…
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[PSA]
(sheep bleating in the background)
Sheep: Marijuana kills thousands of our kids every day. Drugs are just bad, mmm-ok?
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Dean Becker: Alright, my friends. You have been listening to the Century of Lies show on the Drug Truth Network. Our guest was Mr. Russ Jones. Thirty plus years of law enforcement experience and now a speaker for the group Law Enforcement Against Prohibition.
And what do I do this for? I certainly don’t do it so I can get high. I don’t do it so that you know your kids can get high. I do it so less people will get high. So that we can quit funding the Taliban and we can eliminate the cartels and the gangs and the reasons for the horrible blow back – the deaths and the disease and the crime and the addiction that results from the policy of drug prohibition.
Once again I remind you that there is no truth, justice, logic, scientific fact, medical data - no reason for this drug war to exist. We have indeed been duped. It is my belief the drug lords run both sides of this equation. Please visit our website: endprohibition.org. Prohibido esta evilesco.
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For the Drug Truth Network, this is Dean Becker, asking you to examine our policy of drug prohibition: The Century of Lies.
This show produced at the Pacifica Studios of KPFT, Houston.